What Price Labor Peace? Marathon Union-City Hall Talks: Furloughs & Layoffs vs Early Retirement

Early retirement full benefits for thousands of city workers at a time when projections are that the same pension requirements with the current number of beneficiaries will be 50% of the entire general fund by 2012.

What is happening with the contract negotitions for Fire and Police departments by far the biggest chunk?

Again, is the mayor more concerned about the employees of the city or the public those employees are supposed to serve? As Robn has said, jobs are more important than services.

How about some unions dues going to the City of Los Angeles?

Okay, I admit to being naive in this department. However, it seems ridiculous to push early retirement. That means we would still be paying for people without getting the services.
Then what? When the money flows in the city hires more people, yet pays retirement for those who are still able to work (and know the job better than the newbies)but have retired.

My experience with City Departments is that one person, who can answer the same question, refers it to someone else. It seems like three people are sometimes doing the job that one person can do.

I have no idea if that applies to all departments. It sure does seem to be the case with the departments I have called for assistance.

It seems to me that layoffs and furloughs are the immediate answer. Addressing the pension/retirement packages is the bigger picture.

Anonymous 12:35 nailed it.

Now ten people will be getting paid for what one person could do, and the tax payers will once again be screwed.

No matter how it shakes out, in the end the unions will win, while we get the shaft.

Someone has got to stand up to these people and tell them they're like everyone else.

There is nothing sacrosanct about being a union member especially teachers, the biggest cry babies in the world. Someday, someone is going to instist that they work a full year for the part time jobs they hold.

The school year is 180 days: five days shorter and half a year, yet they bitch and complain like a bunch of childish stuck pigs that extra pay is being cut because summer school is cancelled.

They should work a 50-week year like the rest of the working schmucks out there. We've gone long past the time when kids were needed in the summer to help their farmer dads.

No wonder our kids are dumb, and we're all to blame. They're out of school more than they're in it, and we stupidly let schoolboards hang onto long dead traditions.

"No matter how it shakes out, in the end the unions will win, while we get the shaft."

Sandy, do you have any idea how or why unions started? It's a very interesting history.

"They should work a 50-week year like the rest of the working schmucks out there."

Holy Cow, Sandy! Obviously, you're not self-employed!

"No wonder our kids are dumb, and we're all to blame."

But now that you're an adult, what's your excuse?

Beachy Beach, while you are giving lessons on the history of unionism I hope you will explain how public unions came to be in California, and how they have a chokehold on the politicians and agencies like LADWP, and how the taxpayer and fee payer is ill-served by this arangement. If it wasn't for the legalized theft brought on by the forced payment of union dues, most public employees would never consider belonging to a union.

Anony Anon, what...? I ask Sandy Sand a simple questiony question and suddenly I'm supposed to support YOUR position?

Look, we get your take on things. Life ain't easy when it's just you, the remote and Fox News. But the simple fact that you believe someone in the political, unionized, or taxpayer world wears the black hat -- while the others don't -- is excruciatingly naive.

There is no question in my mind that the unions were absolutely necessary in the 1930's. Management's philosophy could have been equated to the divine right of kings. And, frankly, I have very little symphony with the management of the domestic auto makers, as they were totally out of touch and provincial.

But with as bad as management was, the UAW was just as bad and between the two groups, they destroyed the domestic auto business.

The uion demands were absolutely outrageous with hourly costs of $78.00 on average , three times the competition in US. Mangement agreed to the demands to stave off a strike, so they could meet their quarterly earnings projections and earn their millions in bonuses.

In the auto industry, the difference between $28.00 and the $78.00 hourly pay was mainly due to pensions and health care obligations. And, this is what finally destroyed the companies.

This is EXACTLY the problem the is happening to the budgets of the city and state level and that is why the deficients are so large.

And for the unions to be insisting upon fully funded early retirements? They want politicians who are beholden to them to kick the can further down the road (just as did the management at GM) trusting that citizens aren't sufficiently financially knowledgeable enought to understand what is happening and politicans can go onto their next office without having to deal with
the consequences of agreeing to this madness.

As far as I am concerned, it is a nuclear bomb on city budgets.

We cannot afford to pay public employees 41% more than the private sector no matter whether we are talking about teachers or police officers or support staff.

Simply, the unions either need to agree to furloughs and layoffs or shifting more future financial obligations back on the empoyees.

The public employment model is broken and needs to be redone. It is not sustainable.

For all the sturm und drang of Julie Butcher and the Coalition of L.A. Unions, and the Mayor and City Council, this is child's theater for the upcoming budgets in following years. The public is not yet aware of the consequences of underfunded and overly generous pension and health plans and our leaders seem to want to ignore the pending disaster. Unless police and fire and dwp and the airports and the port employees recognize what is about to happen and make significant salary and benefit concessions, not the least of which will be a multi-year freeze of their wages and higher co-payments on health benefits, services that make our city liveable, will virtually cease to exist in the next few years.

Can we not see that what is happening in the State is our preview of the future?

Layoffs and furloughs will start this year, and increase as the years go on. That's not something negotiable with the unions, legally or otherwise; it is a financial fact of life.

"The public employment model is broken and needs to be redone. It is not sustainable."

KK, it's being redone right now.

Have a little symphony (sic) for all the public employees, school teachers, administrators who have already been laid off....there's more to come.

How come all the teachers I know who are getting laid off aren't really getting "laid off"? Those who have been around longer are bumping those who haven't been around as long. Some are taking early retirement. Some are getting letters but saying that they don't mean anything and they're just going to other schools. The youngest ones on the union totem pole are getting ready to take the jobs of the non-union aides.

I don't think that teachers getting laid off is any different than any other person getting laid off in any other profession right now. It's sad all over.

Beachy beach:

How about having a little sympathy for the private sector who have have been laid off in far greater percentages and quantity than public employees? And don't have the resources to fall back on?

How about having a little sympathy for the 50% of people over the age of 55 who have to stay in the job market years longer because our retirement portfolios were decimated last year and do not have a guaranteed retirement?

How about a little sympathy for the individual small business owner whose health care premiums have gone up 33% this year alone after year after years of double digit increases?

And while the public employees unions are sharpening up their strategies for taking care of their own, the private sector gets to study Barron's to figure out how to handle their retirement portfolios and learn how to read the fine print of medical insurance contracts.

In the grand scheme of things, who really deserves a little sympathy?

To 3:20...The teacher I know who is leaving has taught for 40+ years and this year was her planned retirement. She's taking the early retirement of an extra $600 per month for five years as a "nice surprise". Wouldn't you think that gift money could have gone towards helping another teacher or aide keep their job?

Yes I do think that gift money should have gone toward helping another teacher. I'm sure that is an isolated incident. 40 years is way too long to still be teaching. Sorry. LAUSD needs fresh, young blood. They have enough trouble getting rid of those ancient teachers with seniority. But I doubt there were literally hundreds of LAUSD teachers all preparing, coincidentally, to retire this year and lucky them, they all got that extra surprise money. But it may very well push out a few who could have stayed another few years, but probably shouldn't have stayed.

As far as the "ancient teachers with seniority" being pushed out in favor of "young blood" with new ideas, that's typical ageism and knee-jerkism gone amuck. When my daughter was in kindergarten almost 10 years ago, there was a half-day program only (I think they went to full-day kindergarten and now are talking about reducing back to half-days).

It was hard to cram everything into a few hours, but of the 3 kindergarten classes at this school, one of a handful of good elementary schools on the westside (there are NO middle schools decent enough to go to, by the way, Emerson in Westwood even being one of the schools Rocky's just added a gang prevention program to), my daughter was lucky to have the "ancient one" who taught the old-fashioned way.

All her kids learned to read by january, while the other two classes taught by young blood were more "innovative" and lay on their backs reciting poetry, using the Open Court series which tied their hands on how to teach, etc. Her results were so far and away better, even with three kids who started unable to speak any English (Japanese and French by the way, not Hispanic) that she dared the principal to fire her, or just not open her door if she didn't want to see her "not following the program."

She since retired and other kids are the worse for it. However at other schools including the private one my kid was forced into because we had no choice, the younger teachers WERE better and an the old-timers were arrogant and bitchy. On the whole, the teachers were generally snotty because they have the parents by the cajones. So they're not all "deadwood" and some deserve that extra retirement perk. Problem is, there's no way to determine which ones and the union requires everything to be done across the board, unlike merit pay at private companies.

KK wrote: How about some unions dues going to the City of Los Angeles?

That makes sense, The union won't like this but
they should be paying the pensions, that is how CALPERS works, isn't it?

Antonio Villaraigosa is not running for Governor. Now let's complete the job: drum the "FAILURE" mayor out of office for not keeping hardly any promises.

If I understand David Zahniser's report in today's LA Times, what is on the table is no pay raises for 22,000 city employees over the next two years and offering early retirement to about 2,400 employees in order to reduce the workforce by that same 2,400 employees.

Beginning in 2011, however, the city will offer 6 pay increases totaling between 14.5% to 24% in the period of July, 2011-July 2014 to most city employees. I wonder how much of the 25% pay increase over 5 years agreed to 2007 will already be IN city employees pay checks over the next two years.

In addition, city workers will receive an 1.75% extra in 2013 and 2014 based on their 2013-2014 wages.

This is on top of paying out 78.5 million dollars to entice city workers to take early retirement. This money is to cover the sick pay, vacation pay and cash incentives that would be owed to 2,425 departing workers.

This 78.5 million does not cover the pension contribution required to fund these early retirements. Beginning in 2011, city employees will see their pension contribution raised to 6.75% from 6%, still far below the 8% required in past years.

And, the city will agree that they will not hire about more than about 800 employees to fill the eliminated positions OVER the next five years.

Union leaders are seeking the city's assurances that there will be no layoff or furloughs in the next 2 years. The next fiscal year, by the way, is already projected to have a shortfall of over 1 billion.

In 2012, it is projected that 2 billion or 50% of the general fund will be needed to fund city pension obligations. So, the city would be betting on a economic recovery of unbelievable proportions to be able to offer this to city employees as well as maintain services to its citizens, like neighborhood councils, animal shelters and street lights. How many extra police officers will this lead to?

Somehow, if this goes through, I think we can count on our mayor to say next year or the year after that :"No one could have predicted these kind of budget shortfalls."

Date Raise
7/1/07 (Retro) 2% Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA)
1/1/08 2% COLA
7/1/08 3% COLA

7/1/09 3% COLA
1/1/10 2.75% half-step
7/1/10 2.25% COLA (minimum)
1/1/11 2.75% half-step
7/1/11 2.25% COLA (minimum)
1/1/12 2.75% half-step
Total guaranteed raise 22.75%
Total guaranteed raise compounded 25.2%

It's not ageism. But you are showing your age by talking about Open Court. That is so long gone from our elementary schools. Phonics is the way to go and that has been proven.

I said there were exceptions and you were lucky enough to get one.

In our school, we have a third grade teacher who is an absolute bitch. She is humiliating, degrading and has no business being a teacher. Too bad LAUSD can't get rid of her no matter what she does. She's been there too long. I don't care what her teaching methods are either. The woman needs to go. She has ruined more lives than helped. And the kids still come out not memorizing their times tables. We could only be so lucky to get rid of her. I know parents who would contribute to an early retirement for her to get rid of her before our K-2nd graders enter third grade.

I don't know how the LAUSD pensions work. But I do know that community college professors have to have at least a Masters Degree. They get paid less to teach than they would be paid in the private sector with that level of education. As a rule, they do not pay into Social Security unless they have had another job that pays into that system.

Most community college professors pay into STRS. There are retirement formulas based upon age at retirement and number of years that you have taught.

Then there are the formulas if you want to provide for a spouse. You will get much less per month if you opt to cover a spouse.

When you retire, if you do quualify for Social Security, your Social Security will be offset by your pension. So even if you paid into Social Security, unless you retire in your 70's or 80's, you are unlikely to collect much of what you paid in to qualify for.

I assume that it is similar for LAUSD teachers.
Please stop bagging on teachers. Contrary to what
Sandy Sand said - she seems clueless as to what teachers really do.

Teachers must be in class before your children get there. That means being up about 6:00 AM - maybe to drop their own kids somewhere first?
They have to be bright and cheery, and when your kids leave at the end of the day, they are still there until 5:00 or 6:00 PM grading papers or writing lesson plans.

These projects that teachers come up with just do not appear out of thin air.

Then there are the music teachers and drama teachers that stay after school so that their students can be in school plays.

There are the ACA DECA teachers working to get their students through competitions and into colleges.

We have our football,basketball, baseball, and track coaches.

And I can't forget my son's favorite teacher in high school that took his students camping up Highway 395 and into the desert.

That is above and beyond. And teachers do not get compensated for those little field trips and experiences that will stay with your child until he / she has his or her own children - and the cycle repeats.

"Dead wood" - some of the best professors that I know are in their 60's. You can be a great teacher in your 20's or a great teacher in your 60's. Age is not always a factor. There are teachers and professors that do not belong in a classroom just like there are people in any job that do not deserve their paychecks.

For college professors, there are web sites to rate your professors. Students will often give a high score to the professor that makes them do the least amount of work.

Thank God for the world's teachers - they are one of the most self sacrificing groups that I know.

Hello everybody, it is Labor Day! I'm happy with my extra day off, and I am planning to doing something fun that'll probably involve a car trip and seeing something new in Central Falls I haven't seen yet.
You write new post on a Monday at the labor day? ... HappY BLogging!